Talk:Fire

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Icon-tasks.png To-do list for Fire edit · history · watch
  • an image of some players burning would be nice, done now.

Contents

Fire duration

Okay, I used a bot Pyro to do some trials. I wish there was a console command to just cheat and give you fire status with no flamethrower needed :D . I took a class to the bot and tried my best to just touch the flamethrower effect without staying in it too long to reduce the principal damage. I reset my character's HP after each trial so each number is HP from full health after fire effect dissipates. Keep in mind that these have unavoidable initial damage from the flamethrower, so this is dirty data.

  • Six trials with Heavy (from 300 HP) : 232, 212, 220, 226, 213, 238, 234.
  • Three trials with Scout (from 125 HP): 68, 60, 53
  • Two trials with Engineer (from 125 HP): 55, 54
  • Average damage: 72.18
  • Standard Deviation: 9.71.

So, range is about 67~77 HP damage. Again, a little bit of that is from the initial hit(s).

I am certain the effect lasts ten seconds (well, that answers the to-do). Damage is applied about every half second. It seems that each tick of damage is randomized from 2 ~ 4 HP. I don't think it's an averaging effect. I think total flame damage can fluctuate.

Bottom line: fire effect does about 70 points of damage over 10 seconds.

If someone could please confirm and / or approve this for addition to article, I'd appreciate it.--Wipnum 23:32, 24 January 2008 (CST)

Wipnum I like your ad hoc calculations, I can't disagree with them. However, a few questions: What is the estimated principal damage from the flamethrower, and did you subtract this from your calculations to figure out damage from the fire effect? I'm curious what angle you chose to ignite your subjects; using a very wide angle and range would seem to me to reduce the damage from the weapon. Is the fire effect able to crit? There seems to be many varying opinions on this. (personally I believe it is not able to crit and people's perception of said crits is due to those fluctuations you described.) But I'd really like to know a definitive answer on fire crits.
Also, I'd like to see a couple more things in this article unrelated to your studies.
1) Considering the medics healing/second, how many people on flame is a single medic able to neutralize completely before it runs out? Let's say a pyro was deciding whether to suicide charge a group and needed to know how many people to set on fire to make it an effective charge...
2) Is a dispenser able to out-heal the flame effect and at what rate? (I suspect yes, but haven't done any scientific tests)
Anyways, thanks for taking the time to figure these things out.Spayced 01:28, 25 January 2008 (CST)
Spayced, your reply and a realization on my part made me go back for more testing. I feel dumb; I completely forgot about the bot_mimic command that would let me lightly tap my mouse for the briefest of flamethrower activations at maximum flamethrower range. Sooooo, I did that. I also made sure to see what my HP was after the inital tap as well as the final after the flame effect stopped. This way, I can potentially adjust for the damage from the flame cone as you mentioned.
I got these results. About Adjusted minus Tap column: I am making a big assumption that both flame effect damage and flamethrower cone damage start at time zero simultaneously. The inital tap at range is both a 5 HP strike and the start of the flame damage, a random 2-4 per tick deal. I average that to 3, and that's 3 I don't want to count. Sooo... Adjusted Fire Dmg minus Tap = Total Dmg - (Start - Tap) + 3.

Player Burning from the Pyro's view

Class Start HP After "Tap" Final "Tap" Dmg Total Dmg Adjusted Fire Dmg (minus "Tap")
Heavy 300 288 232 12 68 59
Heavy 300 294 237 6 63 60
Heavy 300 294 239 6 61 58
Heavy 300 293 241 7 59 55
Heavy 300 292 234 8 66 61
Heavy 300 293 237 7 63 59
Heavy 300 293 237 7 63 59
Heavy 300 292 232 8 68 63
Heavy 300 292 235 8 65 60
Heavy 300 292 239 8 61 56
Demoman 175 167 118 8 57 52
Demoman 175 166 108 9 67 61
Demoman 175 167 108 8 67 62
Demoman 175 168 114 7 61 57
  • Average of Total Dmg from new trials: 63.5
  • Average of Adjusted Fire Dmg (minus "Tap"): 58.7
If my new trials are valid, this means if you're touched with the smallest quantity of flame, you can expect to take around 60 points of damage (not 70) from fire effect after the Pyro stops attacking. I think this set of trials is much cleaner than my first set. What do you think, sirs? --Wipnum 04:03, 25 January 2008 (CST)
I think some people have far too much time on their hands :P Seriously, good work, it would be handy to know one of the dev team to get a simple answer on these things. C'mon Valve, help us to help you...--Aurora 05:45, 25 January 2008 (CST)
Good work Wipnum. They seem pretty accurate as far as I can see.--CountDOODOO 06:32, 25 January 2008 (CST)
Agreed, Aurora. I imagine a developer coming by and saying, "Well, heck, I could have told you that." I still had fun doing it, though. I went ahead and added the note; if approved, please remove the to-do. It'd be interesting to see if Valve ever adjusts the duration / damage ticks in a future patch. Thanks!--Wipnum 11:42, 25 January 2008 (CST)
Another way to check these would be to use the flaregun, as a definitely discrete initial "tap". The base damage of the flaregun projectile can be determined by shooting a pyro, or shooting someone while they are underwater. Of course, if you were the shooter, how do you determine bot health? If you're the target, how do you give the bot an achievement unlockable? ... Another thing: Anyone viewing this data on the wiki will probably be trying to answer two questions:
  • How much damage will I do
  • When I realize I'm on fire, how do I know if I'll survive the afterburn?
For the second case, we can ignore both the initial damage and (if it starts at time zero) the first afterburn damage--people just want a good estimate from the time they look at their health meter. --Terr 00:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Pyro versus Pyro

"It should be noted that Pyros themselves can not be set on fire and so in a fight with another Pyro, it would be wise to rely on your Shotgun."

This statement is misleading. Pyros still take contact damage from fire, which can still be particularly devastating coming from a talented player. However, pyros do not take damage over time. I'll clarify this. -beep 22:24, 6 April 2008 (CDT)

Fire extinguishment

How long before the fire is extinguished when being healed by dispenser or medic? Is it based upon how fast you heal? If so, old wounds being healed faster than fresh wounds affects it?

No old wounds problem, if you're on fire, you're constantly being hurt and resetting that timer. The medigun seems to heal quicker than dispensers, might want to test that though.

Are you sure eating a sandvich extinguishes fire immediately? WindPower 04:51, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I've never seen that happen, should be easy to test, will do so tomorrow -Firestorm2 05:35, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Bleeding?

Should the bleeding effect of the Tribalman's shiv be described in detail here, on its own page, or on a separate page containing the two Damage-over-Time effects together?

Bleeding differs from Fire in that it cannot be extinguished, and is therefore immune to Water, Compression blast, and Jarate. It can still be healed by Medpacks and Medics though. -- MistahFixIt 11:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I've also just been informed that Bleeding doesn't seem to be cured by Small Medpacks. -- MistahFixIt 12:32, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I think it deserves its own page. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first of many weapons that cause bleeds. They went as far as putting a blood drop on the HUD to indicate it. Pilk (talk)
Indeed. Own page. here. -- Smashman... (tsb) 14:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


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