TF2 Wiki talk:Community Portal

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TF2Wiki Styling

For want of a better place I am posting this open review here in the Community portal.

The review is to get other people's view on the styling of TF2Wiki. In an attempt to simplify and standardize the style people use for articles I've been looking at the templates and css stylesheets. After getting sick of creating different colors I uploaded some mock ups and asked Nos which he preferred, hoping for a 'that one' response so I could be done with it. God bless him, Nos isn't that type of guy and asked me to get others opinions, hence this post. So people, TF2Wiki needs you.

Edit: I've just notice that the following does not work in IE6, so you will need IE7 or a Mozilla browser to do the following.

Please visit mywebsite (bare in mind only the front page will work, it is a mock up) and have a play with the different choices by clicking the drop down box at the top right of the page. Once you have decided which you prefer, post your choice here. I'll give it until next Friday (7th Dec) before choosing, depending on peoples feedback because I really want to get this out of the way and focus on other things. --Aurora 20:30, 2 December 2007 (CST)

I'm selecting options from the drop down menu, and nothing seems to be happening. --Wilsonator 21:21, 2 December 2007 (CST)

You may have IE6, only noticed it didnt work late last night, I'll update it as soon as I get a chance --Aurora 05:57, 3 December 2007 (CST)

Ok, now fixed, I've had to resort to server side and AJAX to get IE6 working. Seriously I hate MS browsers and their non-compliance, you really should consider getting a decent browser. I've also imported all the IE bug fixes so the layout is the same (although I do still notice a missing border from the top of the banner) but there is a bit of a delay fetching the styles from the server. I can't help this, its the only way around IE's $h!%eness. Firefox users can still use the View>Page Style menu to switch instantly client side, because it's alternative style sheet feature rocks. Not tested in IE7 because I refuse to install it, but the bug fixes are there and now its server side it shouldn't have issues. It does use JavaScript though so if you don't have this turned on it won't work, and if you don't....well, your ---- out of luck, and I would have to ask how you have been managing? --Aurora 19:57, 3 December 2007 (CST)

What makes them all look odd is the orange that's used. It's too dark. Maybe try something like #FFAA00 (████), or #FF8822 (████)? -- WanderingFox 08:00, 3 December 2007 (CST)

I used the current orange used on the main page, which is   #FF6600  , now I don't know the original thinking so I couldn't say what was intended but a color pick of the actual logo is   #FF6505  . I've just had a chat with Nos and think he was intending a lighter color as well so I've gone for   #FF8C00   which is the "web color" defined as "DarkOrange", (see wikipedia:Web colors for more on details). I think this is a good compromise. I've re-done the schemes and uploaded them so take another look and see what you think. --Aurora 21:49, 3 December 2007 (CST)

119 with a slightly lighter link color (to discern it from plain text better) would be my pick. Honestly the only thing that really ever bothered me with the current style is the choice of orange :P -- WanderingFox 22:00, 3 December 2007 (CST)

That's fair comment, I haven't done all this just for a slight color change though, its about usability, all will become clear when I do a help document on how to use tables and redo the templates. --Aurora 22:10, 3 December 2007 (CST)

Oh I know, that was just the web developer in me nitpicking :P -- WanderingFox 22:13, 3 December 2007 (CST)

By the way, pick one of the other schemes link color, if your a web developer you'll know how frustrating a comment like 'a slightly lighter link color' is ;P --Aurora 22:16, 3 December 2007 (CST)

Are you kidding, I have a huge hex color chart pinned on my wall for crap like this :P In all honesty, the chances of finding a single color to match is going to be hard. We want to use it on two completely different backgrounds. The off-white of the main page, and the Orange of the header. The problem with those two colors is that all of the good link colors for one color clash, or don't stand out on, the other background color. I really don't have a definitive answer, but the only color I can come up with is something like a warm brown, but even then it would be hard to distinguish from black text. -- WanderingFox 22:31, 3 December 2007 (CST)

That's good enough, I can work with 'warm brown', I just needed a ball park not a blade of grass :) --Aurora 07:39, 4 December 2007 (CST)

I prefer the Brown Based- Brown2 + Orange. --CountDOODOO 15:36, 4 December 2007 (CST)

---

Update: New scheme transfer has been completed and main page reconstructed. Less painful than I thought it would be tbh, I made a few slight changes to the scheme to find a "middle ground" of everyones choices. If anyone gets a loss of colors on visiting, this is to do with the browser caching. To bypass your browser's cache to see the changes:

Mozilla / Firefox / Safari: hold down Shift while clicking Reload, or press Ctrl-Shift-R (Cmd-Shift-R on Apple Mac); IE: hold Ctrl while clicking Refresh, or press Ctrl-F5; Konqueror:: simply click the Reload button, or press F5; Opera users may need to completely clear their cache in Tools→Preferences.

I hope it's to everyones taste, I need to go through quiet a few templates to shift them over now but this shouldn't take too long. Also I need to write some documentation to explain how to use the new styles (reaaallly simple now :) but this may take a bit longer. Any problems or questions, give me a shout. --Aurora 10:44, 8 December 2007 (CST)

I think the link color is still a little dark, it's great on the infobox headers and when bold, but in normal text it's still hard to distinguish between black. -- WanderingFox 10:53, 8 December 2007 (CST)

There's just no pleasing some people :p Try that I've lightened it a little more --Aurora 11:37, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Much better :P -- WanderingFox 11:38, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Update: Class templates ported across. --Aurora 13:31, 8 December 2007 (CST)
Map, Maps, Custom map and Map-stub templates ported. --Aurora 14:36, 8 December 2007 (CST)

Forums

I know its been mentioned before, but I'm wondering if anyone sees the need, or would like to have forums. If people see a need for it, I could set up phpBB. --Nos 08:45, 17 April 2008 (CST)

Class, ClassUnlocks, ClassUnlocksSpy, ClassUnlocksSniper etc, etc Templates - IMPORTANT

Seriously, what's going on here? It's a complete mess now, this isn't how templates should be used.

1. I mentioned this before when the Class template was introduced, templates should not define a whole page. This is now why your in this stupid situation of having about 20 templates and huge inconsistencies between them. On top of that, the poor people that translate pages in to other languages have to update the templates as well as the pages every time a new template is introduced. The Class pages should be a standard wiki page, with templates INCLUDED within them as separate plug ins (tables etc). If you need to have consistent styling between the class pages, which we should, one Help page defining the layout should be created and updated as needed; people that incorrectly edit the class page should be pointed to that.

2. Why are the class pages locked??? a Wiki is for everyone to contribute not one Overlord be begged to make changes. There should be very few pages locked on a wiki, if vandalism is an issue then there are tools to deal with it. Granted things of importance should be locked, for instance the main page (but a main page sandbox can be created for peoples ideas) policies pages because they are defined by admins and rarely changed, and that's it. Look at Wikipedia, imagine if it was like a normal web page where only admins of the site were able to make edits - it wouldn't have become the main focus point for the world knowledge, something else would have the was free to the people.

Now please, lets discuss how the TF2 Wiki should be structured in a way to help the community and not hinder them, because quite frankly I've had to reign myself back from rampaging across the pages without saying anything. --Aurora 13:09, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

OMG, more class templates created. Seriously can people propose mass changes before going ahead and doing them. I'm struggling to get hold of any of the admins so I'm going to have to send major contributors a message. If your one of those that has had a message and reading this please add a comment here or click here to leave me a message. We really need to sort out the community and possibly have a get together through the TF2 Wiki Community. --Aurora 01:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

If you're having trouble contacting an admin, try steam messaging Wilsonator: http://steamcommunity.com/id/wilsonator

I've spoke to Wilsonator, but I need a Bureaucrat not an admin, I am and admin :p --Aurora 19:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I assume #2 has been settled (unless I'm mistaken they're now open for editing, as they should be). As for #1, de-template-ing sounds fine by me. Is anyone actually opposed to it? ~G-Mang (T|C) 02:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes 2 is sorted. As for #1 - I don't think anyone is apposed to changing it, but that's the point of discussing it before hand. It is quite a major change in the respect of the class pages are the most viewed and changed and should discussed and be given proper thought before any changes are made. --urora (talk | contribs) 14:26, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

If no one objects I'll probably go through the articles in the near future to de-template them. Last call for opposing views or suggestions. ~G-Mang (T|C) 23:15, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I waited, and still no responses, so it's done. Class articles in the English namespace are no longer template-based. ~G-Mang (T|C) 05:14, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

As noted here, I agree with removing the templates. That's not how templates are supposed to be used. For others, if you want to use a template to make the page with shortcuts established in templates, that can be done with subtitution: [1]. May be wise to read up on it for future use. MK 07:55, 24 January 2010 (UTC)