Talk:Bonesaw

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Why does the Bone saw have the highest crit consistency? According to statistics, it's the Bone saw that has the highest crit consistency. Does healing cause a higher probability of criticals, or is it kill assists? --NiteCyper (Not signed)

All melee weapons have much higher chance of crits versus other weapons. I personally think this is inflated though because of humiliation rounds where every hit is critical and more people use melee weapons for extra humiliation. There really isn't that much difference though between the melee weapons (except the knife) chance of critical hits. If you have a look the difference in chance between a Bonesaw and a Bottle is about 0.1%. Healing has no effect on critical hit chance as far as I know, and neither does assists. The only thing it could be (and don’t forget the difference is very marginal) is the rate of the syringe gun. I haven't done any critical hit testing (although there is a blog out there of someone who has) but I've always gone on the principal that if you hit the target more often and in quick succession you have more chance of a critical hit. Although that said I personally don't rely on critical hits as part of my game and wouldn't mind at all if they were taken out :) --Aurora 06:02, 27 December 2007 (CST)

I have to disagree with a lot of this. I think in humiliation rounds, ranged weapons are the norm, because players are competing heavily to get the kills on offer; they need to get their target as quickly as possible, before someone else does; there's no time to close to melee range and furthermore the time spent doing so is long enough that you'd lose a lot of other kills.

Furthermore, I don't see how if ALL weapons go crit this would mean the bonesaw gets an overall high crit percentage than other weapons.

However, it's not clear to me how valve calculate the crit percentages. Is it every crit issued, or every crit which hits? do they really count the total number of individual *shots* fired by each player, and also the number of those which are crits?

As I understand it, the likelyhood of you firing a crit depends on how quickly you are climbing the score table. So if you fire lots of shots, you're going to see a larger absolute number of crits being fired, even though the percentage remains the same.

Personally, I almost always play Spy. As such, I'm on the receiving end of wrenches and bonesaws more than anyone else. In my experience, these weapons have a high chance of scoring a single hit kill on a 100% health Spy - which is to say, a crit - I would have said about 1 in 4 hits is a crit, which is about 25%. The official stats claim 15%. Their stats may be being calculated incorrectly, by design error or by bug, or my perception may be wrong. Wildfire 13:19, 27 December 2007 (CST)

Disagree all you like, I did say it was a "personal" opinion. I have no idea why melee weapons have a higher crit chance than other weapons. Valve have never stated how the critical hit calculations work as far as I know, however I did dig out the blog article I mentioned. The My Real Life Work blog details one players experiments with critical hits and is quite insightful. Valves stats maybe calculated incorrectly, but there's not a lot we can do about it here and if it is incorrect, it is incorrect for everyone (perhaps send an email to Valve, voicing your protests?). With regards to people playing Spy, I see that a lot of people say the knife is "incapable" of critical hits. I have to point out that a Backstab is a critical hit, it may not show on screen with a critical hit message but internally thats how it works - and look on the "Percent of attacks critical per weapon" in the middle you will see the knife, 9% is way too much to account just for humiliation rounds. As I mentioned the difference between a Bonesaw and a Bottle is about 0.1%, something had to come out on top, I'm not sure what your issue is with. --Aurora 14:09, 27 December 2007 (CST)

Don't be defensive; my opening comment was a rhetorical introduction only. I don't think it likely the stats are wrongly calculated, but on the other hand, we don't actually know *how* they are calculated, and that's important. Note though that if the stats are incorrectly calculated, then by no means can it be assumed they are incorrect in the same way for everyone. The error for example might be random and say influenced by class and the time of day you're playing...

I've actually noticed on some servers (but not all - it may well be mod related) a backstab WILL show the "CRIT" message.

Final comment; the difference between the bonesaw and bottle. If it is 0.1%, it seems to me that is a very large difference, much more than you'd expect if they're supposed to have the same crit change. Consider; there are tens of thousands of people playing all the time. The total number of attacks made with these weapons is vast. Statistically, a 0.1% variance on such a large number for something which should have equal probability is remarkable. Wildfire 18:38, 27 December 2007 (CST)

Also I would like to mention that your experiences with wrench and bonesaw crits may have been partly due to the Critical hit exploit which was fixed in the November 07, 2007 Patch --Aurora 14:30, 27 December 2007 (CST)

To the comment about humiliation rounds and the use of ranged weapons: If I were a Medic, I'd rather use my Bonesaw than my crappy Needle Gun. --NiteCyper 04:44, 7 April 2008 (CDT)

(06:16, 7 April 2008) Revision

The addition doesn't make much sense to me and find it'd be better removed because it is speculation. --NiteCyper 04:56, 7 April 2008 (CDT)

Fair enough. I've reverted that revision. -beep 13:08, 7 April 2008 (CDT)