Talk:Strategy

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I think the Community Scripts page is the only page we really need to attribute who posted what. The wiki keeps track of it anyways. -- Nos

The Gold Medal

I actually had the 'Gold Medal' strategy idea a week ago or so, but to my knowledge a player carrying the enemy's Intelligence is unable to teleport. Can someone confirm this?

This is not to say that the idea's a *bad* one. In fact, sneaking an Engineer into the opponent's Intel room to drop a Teleporter Exit to get people IN is great fun if the opposing team will let you pull it off. Toss up a Dispenser and a Sentry Gun as well, and you're made. -- Carooe

Just tried it and you can't teleport with the case. Otherwise an excellent and well proven tactic (used something similar in UT many years ago. --DNA.styx 04:19, 7 October 2007 (CST)

Ah, that's my bad. I should have verified that beforehand. -Puddington 10:24, 7 October 2007 (CST)

There was a problem with teleporting intel during beta I think but they fixed it before the final product. - DontEatRawHagis 09:37, 19 November 2007 (CST)

No it was fixed after release. Specifically in the November 07, 2007 Patch

Change 'Strategy' to 'Tactics'

There's a huge misuse of a term here. 'Strategy' refers to a wider, more long-term perspective of warfare, whereas 'tactics' goes as down as to the level of a single soldier. Short quotes from Wikipedia indicate this:

In current military thought, tactics are the lowest level of planning, involving
small units ranging from a few dozen to a few hundred men. Units are organized into
formations, comprising a higher level of planning known as the operational use of
forces. The third tier of military planning is strategic, which is concerned with
the overall means and plan for achieving a long-term outcome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_tactics

Military strategy was one of a triumvirate of "arts" or "sciences" that govern the
conduct of warfare; the others being tactics, the execution of plans and manœuvering
of forces in battle, and logistics, the maintenance of an army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_strategy

I deeply suggest all references to 'strategy' in this wiki are to be changed to 'tactics' where necessary.

JSuvanto 17:43, 24 December 2007 (CST)

What does it matter? They're functionally the same word, and it hardly has any effect on the wiki. Why nit pick something like this? You're proposing several hours of work to go through the 200+ articles to make a change that doesn't even matter. The connotation of the words are identical, as both refer to a plan or action. While militarily speaking, yes, there is a slight distinction. I do not recall Team Fortress 2 having ANYTHING to do with military operations. They're private spy companies, not nations. Either way, if you'd like to change the 228 articles (as of this writing), be my guest, but I'd frankly consider it a huge waste of time. -- WanderingFox (Talk • Contribs) 19:41, 24 December 2007 (CST)

They are not "functionally the same word", since they have a different meaning. It doesn't mean they are synonyms if some people mix them up, although I admit it is very common. Whereas to being afraid of a little bit of work changing the articles, I'm sure there's someone with a similar opinion to mine and willing to help me out with this. The connocations are not identical, since strategy is more the plan, and tactics more the action to make this plan come true. Regarding the military aspects of TF2, even though there is no strictly militaristic hierarchy evident, both companies are definitely employing other militaristic concepts in their struggle. Furthermore, even the business world realises the difference between the two words in question, as often companies talk about their "visions" and their "strategies" on how to achieve them. Overall I still see the point I made valid, even though it is a very large change in the whole of this wiki. I still would rather see proper terms used for different concepts, than showing to the world that we can't even get the basics right. Through this discussion I hoped to make clear why, if at some point we finally get the word replaced, it shouldn't be changed back to the fallacious "strategy". -- JSuvanto 11:35, 27 December 2007 (CST)

Who is this "we" in "we can't get the basics right"? Fox has done an enormous amount of work on the wiki and is not "afraid of a little bit of work". To date I can see you have made 2 contributions, the one above and the first entry about the "huge misuse" of wording. First I would like to say that I think everyone has a right to their own opinion and it does state in the TF2 Wiki style guide that "there are going to be differences in opinion about how words are typed and used on TF2 Wiki". We know this and accept it because we don't want a wiki that is pure facts and totally in a neutral bias like wikipedia is. If we did the wiki would not have opinions on "tactics" or "strategy" at all, we couldn't because it would not be neutral. As you correctly state "In current military thought, tactics are the lowest level of planning..."; notice current that doesn't mean to say it always has been, in the past military (or business) strategy included tactics and "off-the-cuff" changes as part of the strategic planning (especially during the critical time of war). Additionally I would like to know if you think that every single "strategy" on TF2 Wiki is a "tactic"? why aren't some of them "strategies", if someone writes down a full plan of one game is that not a "strategy"? I just don't see the need to be so fastidious about the use of a word that most people reading the wiki, will understand to be an idea for a plan of action in a game and not a step-by-step guide to stabilizing a country. For the record neither I nor Fox chose the word "strategy" and have both changed various wording when discrepancies have arisen. We will both keep reading and if we are indeed flooded with cries of "Tactics not Strategy" by an outraged mob then rest assured one of us (or even Nos) will hop right to it and change all the references. In fact I will mark the article as "Open Review" so all users will be guided here to voice their opinions. --Aurora 13:09, 27 December 2007 (CST)

youve said it allready its clearly strategy "which is concerned with

the overall means and plan for achieving a long-term outcome" isnt that what this page is about. Whereas "tactics are the lowest level of planning, involving
small units ranging from a few dozen to a few hundred men" in the context of TF2 this must mean the individuals who all have their tactics on the individual pages.--markdeadlydavis 06:39, 15 January 2008 (CST)

Jsuvanto, if you'd like to do so, I don't object (and suspect others don't either). But I'm sure as heck not going to do all that for essentially no good reason, as I suspect most people don't care and it won't confuse them, either. If we had separate articles about strategies and tactics, that would be more meaningful. --John 19:45, 28 January 2008 (CST)

Update: This article has been marked as "Open for review" for over a month without similar objections raised as JSuvanto. While it is accepted that there are differences between a 'strategy' and a 'tactic', the context in which the terminology is used through-out the TF2 Wiki does not seem to be causing sufficient confusion to warrant separation of the information within the articles. Users should therefor note that the use of the terms 'strategy' and 'tactics' should be understood to be interchangeable and the related information to be regarded as a systematic method or plan of action. --Aurora 20:39, 28 January 2008 (CST)