Talk:Submachine gun

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Machine pistol title

I think the name is wrong on this. A Machine pistol is a hand pistol that takes a magazine clip (Glock 18, Beretta 93R, Uzi Pistol). I beleive the weapon he carries is a Submachine gun which are slightly larger and usually (but not always) have a butt (MP5, Thompson, Walther MP). Valve also refer to it as an "SMG", so what do you all think? --Aurora 11:05, 30 January 2008 (CST)

He fires it with 2 hands (one on the trigger, the other under the muzzle/clip)... That's not a pistol in my book, but I suppose this is another kukuri/machete debate... --WanderingFox (Talk • Contribs) 11:21, 30 January 2008 (CST)

good point aurora. I believe we should probably change it to SubMachine Gun but can you edit an article's title? i've looked but I don't know how. --CountDOODOO 12:00, 30 January 2008 (CST)

You just move the article :P --WanderingFox (Talk • Contribs) 12:02, 30 January 2008 (CST)

Indeed you do, but don't move it yet, I want to get a consensus and there's no rush. --Aurora 15:48, 30 January 2008 (CST)

Is it me, or does it look like a Greasegun from WWII? Or at least something similiar. I can't place it's lookalike, but I know of a website that I can reference. It has a reference of weapons (Guns) from all around the world. I'll check it when I get home. --Jewbat

I'd say it looks more like the MP40.--CountDOODOO 17:28, 30 January 2008 (CST)

I'd say you're right, it's just that it looks shorter than an Mp40. Lemme grab a picture to show you guys....

forum.axishistory.com/files/mp_40__1_652.jpg - Here it is. I'm not going to bother uploading a picture. What do you guys think? I just think it's odd that an Aussie would use one, but who am I to argue? --Jewbat 17:44, 30 January 2008 (CST)

Seems forward-stocks/magazines are available on MP's and SMG's. (This is going to get messy. I'm going to ask the forums.) --MoQ 18:21, 30 January 2008 (CST)

That's true, though for easier term usage, we can always fall back on SMG. We can all agree it is that, right? =) --Jewbat 18:23, 30 January 2008 (CST)

It doesn't matter. Its both. It looks like a M712 (Automatic C96 Mauser) with a stock: [1] An SMG fires pistol bullets. A machine pistol fires pistol bullets. An SMG is compact. A machine pistol is compact. See where I'm going with this? An MP5 is generally considered and sold as a SMG but an MP5k can easily be held in one hand with its pistol grip and MP stands for "Maschinenpistole". Go figure. --madhaha - (Forum Post) [2]

Note on madhaha's machine pistol, from [3]: "Today, these big pistols are extremely scarce - a GIANT .45". So, this gun seems to fit with the sizing from the in-game gun. Compare [4] to [5] Vavle's developer commentary did say they try to make the weapons look customized, and I'm willing to bet that this machine pistol is what their base was. --MoQ 21:19, 30 January 2008 (CST)

It's referenced to as a SMG by VALVe in the 'Tips' section at the bottom of the loading page. --WanderingFox (Talk • Contribs) 11:50, 8 February 2008 (CST)

In response to madhaha, not only the Mauser, it also bears somewhat of a resemblance to the French MAS-38. It may be hard to classify what real life firearm was used as a model as some weapons designers on development teams will use multiple guns as inspiration, and take the designs they like from each. An excellent example of this would be the Battle Rifle from the HALO series, as it has extremely similar qualities of both the French FAMAS and the now defunct XM8 prototype. Short of asking the man directly responsible for modeling the weapon, who's to say? -- Frankmarlowe

Visual References

TF2 Gun	SMG	MP
[6] [7]	[8] [9] [10]	[11] [12] [13]

I suggest getting some pictures of people holding smgs and mp's so we can check for size, which seems to me to be the real difference... --MoQ 18:21, 30 January 2008 (CST)

It look's more like the MP40 to me which is a Submachine gun. Also note that there is a gray area (even amongst experts) in that at what point does a machine pistol become an SMG (size? clip size? use? see Uzi range). Finally I'd like to say let's not over complicate this issue, I'm not too bothered which specific gun it's based on, all that matters is if it's an SMG rather than pistol. --Aurora 06:27, 31 January 2008 (CST)

Update: As no one has voiced any strong objections and most support the change the article has been moved to Submachine gun. It's also consistent with other references from Valve, I couldn't see any references to "Machine pistol". I'll go through other articles and change the references. --Aurora 02:21, 7 February 2008 (CST)

It exactly look like a "StG 44" (without the buttstock) it is said that it has combined traits of carbines, submachine guns and automatic rifles. [Wikipedia ] [Image] --The_Scorpion 01:42, 10 February 2008 (CST)